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"Timor"
Dec 1, 2005 18:21:29 GMT -5
Post by ocelot on Dec 1, 2005 18:21:29 GMT -5
Timor Words and Music by Shakira
Going on and on and on and on This is going on and on and on and on now Said it once and say it twice I want to save your time Safe Timor, Safe Timor
It's Alright, it's alright Cause the system never fails The good guys are in power and the bad guys are in jail
It's alright, it's alright Just as long as we can vote We live in democracy And that's what we promote
Isn't it? Isn't it?
It's alright, it's alright If the news says half the truth Hearing what we want is the secret to eternal youth It's alright, it's alright If the planet splits in three Cause I'll keep selling records and you've got your MTV
If we forget about them don't worry If they forget about us then hurry How about the people who don't matter anymore? If we forget about them don't worry If they forget about us then hurry
How about the people who don't matter anymore? East Timor. Timor. Timor.
It's alright, it's alright They don't show it all on TV So we won't really know it Just by watching *BC
It's alright, it's alright For our flag, we die and kill as long as we don't know We'd do it just to pay their bills
If we forget about them don't worry If they forget about us then hurry How about the people who don't matter anymore? If we forget about them don't worry If they forget about us then hurry
How about the people who don't matter anymore? East Timor. Timor. Timor.
Let's keep tanning while it's sunny They'll risk our hides to make their money Now don't you find that funny
If we forget about them don't worry If they forget about us then hurry How about the people who don't matter anymore? If we forget about them don't worry If they forget about us then hurry
How about the people who don't matter anymore? East Timor. Timor. Timor.
If we forget about them If we forget about us then hurry How about the people who don't matter anymore? If we forget about them don't worry If they forget about us then hurry How about the people who don't matter anymore? East Timor. Timor. Timor.
East Timor. Timor. Timor. East Timor. Timor. Timor.
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"Timor"
Dec 1, 2005 18:32:09 GMT -5
Post by ocelot on Dec 1, 2005 18:32:09 GMT -5
East Timor: U.N. Security Council Must Ensure Justice U.N. Commission’s Report Urges International Tribunal if Indonesia Fails to Act (New York, June 29, 2005) -- The United Nations Security Council should endorse a U.N. commission’s recommendations for addressing Indonesia’s failure to ensure justice for crimes against humanity in East Timor, Human Rights Watch said today. The commission’s report, which was sent to the Security Council, should be made public as soon as possible.
The Commission of Experts’ report, which was forwarded to the Security Council on Monday, found that the trials in Jakarta for crimes committed in East Timor in 1999 were “manifestly inadequate,” showing “scant respect for or conformity to relevant international standards.” In the report, the commission recommended that Indonesia accept international support to strengthen its prosecutorial capacity, advising that the Indonesian government be given a clear six-month timetable to show progress on the commission’s recommendations. Should Indonesia fail to act, the commission urged the Security Council to consider establishing, under its Chapter VII authority, an international criminal tribunal. “The U.N. commission’s report properly acknowledges that the international community has an obligation to ensure justice for the crimes against humanity committed in East Timor in 1999,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “The Security Council should make it clear that it will establish an international tribunal if Indonesia does not seriously pursue justice.” During the six-month timetable, Indonesia should undertake much more aggressive efforts at prosecution, accept a team of international legal experts to assist its attorney general’s office, and reopen cases where appropriate, the Commission said. The report concluded that the original Jakarta trials were so flawed that those acquitted should not be granted immunity under double jeopardy clauses if new trials were to occur. Of the 18 people the Indonesian government indicted for crimes against humanity in East Timor, 12 were acquitted at first instance and their acquittals have since been upheld by Indonesia’s Supreme Court. Of the six originally convicted, five had their convictions overturned by the Appeals Court. Only Eurico Guterres, an East Timorese militia commander, remains convicted at present. His conviction was upheld by an Appeals Court although his sentence was halved to five years. He remains free pending final appeal to the Supreme Court. “Indonesia’s trials for crimes in East Timor speak for themselves: the process was a sham,” said Adams. “The U.N. experts’ report shows the Security Council that it’s time to put its weight behind a credible justice process.” The report also recommended that the Security Council extend and strengthen the parallel justice process in East Timor. The report by the commission of experts found that the Serious Crimes Unit and Special Panels for Serious Crimes, in the Timorese capital Dili, had succeeded in prosecuting low-level militia members. However, it had been unable to bring to justice those who bore “greatest responsibility” for serious violations of human rights committed in East Timor in 1999, including senior Indonesian civilian and military personnel who remain at large in Indonesia and out of reach of the Dili tribunal. At the same time, the U.N. commission expressed reservations about plans for a truth commission, the Commission of Truth and Friendship, recently proposed by the governments of Indonesia and East Timor. This proposal has been widely opposed by local civil society groups. The U.N. commission noted that the truth commission’s terms of reference, which include amnesty provisions even for perpetrators of the worst crimes, “contradict international standards on denial of impunity for serious crimes.” “While the governments of Indonesia and East Timor may be ready to bury past crimes for the sake of political expedience, the people of East Timor, and many in Indonesia, feel that justice has not yet been done,” said Adams. Human Rights Watch has long maintained that Indonesia has failed in its efforts to bring to justice high-ranking perpetrators of crimes committed in East Timor. For details, see “Justice Denied for East Timor.” After a quarter-century of brutal occupation, an estimated 1,400 East Timorese civilians were killed when the Indonesian Armed Forces and Timorese militias embarked on a campaign of murder, arson and forced expulsion in the months before—and days immediately after— the people of East Timor voted for independence in a U.N.-administered referendum in 1999. The U.N. commission of experts, appointed by the U.N Secretary-General Kofi Annan, consisted of Justice Prafullachandra Bhagwati of India, Professor Yozo Yokota of Japan and Shaista Shameem of Fiji.
East Timor: The World Must Act Or Be Complicit In The Killing (New York-September 5, 1999) Human Rights Watch today charged that Western governments were not doing all they could to stop the violence spreading across East Timor in the wake of the vote in favor of independence there last week.
"Indonesia seems bent on leaving East Timor the same bloody way it went in," said Sidney Jones, Asia director of Human Rights Watch. "Western governments will be complicit in the killing if they fail to use any and every means possible to force the Indonesian government to either stop the militia violence or allow international peacekeepers in." Jones dismissed as "nonsense" the suggestion that the militias—created, supported, and armed by the Indonesian army—were beyond Jakarta's control or that they were acting at the behest of "rogue" elements of the armed forces. "The only evidence one needs of Jakarta's involvement is that some 15,000 army and police are in East Timor doing absolutely nothing to stop the terror, arrest the perpetrators, or protect the victims." "This shows every sign of being planned and coordinated beforehand," she said. "The Indonesian army may be trying to teach a lesson not only to the East Timorese but to the people of Aceh and Irian Jaya. The lesson is: if you seek separation from Indonesia, even if support for separation is overwhelming, we will destroy you, and no outside power will come to your aid." She said it was absurd to explain the violence simply in terms of the pro-Indonesia militias being poor losers. The increasing invective over the last week in the Indonesian press and on the part of Jakarta-based politicians against the United Nations, Australia, and the U.S. was serving to discredit those most visibly involved in the referendum process. Human Rights Watch said Indonesia's major donors and trading parners, including the U.S., Australia, Japan, and the European Union should agree on coordinated and targeted sanctions, including suspension of direct budgetary support and other forms of non-humanitarian aid. That aid would be resumed if and when the violence was brought under control. Since it appeared that the Indonesian army had no intention of bringing the militias to heel, Human Rights Watch said, the leverage should be used to persuade President Habibie to accept an emergency international peacekeeping force. Military training and transfers of equipment—such as U.S.$5 million in aircraft parts pending from the U.S.—should also be halted. At the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit convening in New Zealand later this week the crisis in East Timor, and coordinating sanctions should be a top priority. The main arguments against a peacekeeping force thus far have been that Indonesia would never agree (and without Indonesia's agreement, the Security Council would never approve), and that it would take too long to deploy. Australia, New Zealand, Portugal, and the United Kingdom have been reported at various times to be considering such a force that some have termed a "Coalition of the Willing," the bulk of whose forces would almost certainly have to come from Australia. If Indonesia gave a green light, a rapid deployment would probably be possible. But as of Sunday afternoon New York time, there was no evidence that the Indonesian government had changed its stance of rejecting international peacekeepers. In the meantime, East Timorese are being attacked in the schools and church compounds where they have sought refuge, most international journalists have left, and by Sunday evening Dili time, the militias were in control of most of the territory. "The international community paid for this referendum to happen," said Jones. "It sent more than 1,000 expatriate staff to Dili as part of the United Nations Mission in East Timor and hired more than 4,000 local staff, all of whom are in serious danger of militia attack because of their UNAMET association. Its failure to even try to use maximum leverage has turned these people into sitting ducks for militia gunfire." ------------------------ I added those two articles to give a bit of an idea of what has happened in East Timor.
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"Timor"
Dec 1, 2005 18:53:16 GMT -5
Post by ocelot on Dec 1, 2005 18:53:16 GMT -5
I feel this is about the people who don't really pay attention to rest of the world beyond what the politicans say. It's for those who have the assumption that democracy is best for everyone in every situations (or act like that is what they believe).
The part about the system never failing is I believe is a point about the people who think that things are fine.
I think in reality she doesn't believe it's alright that the news is only saying half the truth, and she believes that it is wrong to just hear what we want. This I believe is a sacrastic about what people notice in the world, she doesn't believe it's right to ignore the rest of the world just because your life is fine and dandy.
I believe the chorus is about the the attitude of certain people in so many countries, that if we forget about a situation it doesn't really matter but when they forget about us that's something that we have to deal with. It has to do with the selfishness in the world in this era. The mentioning of East Timor is because they are a group of people who we have forgotten and they don't deserve what has happened to them.
Again I believe this sacrastic about what we see on TV and a message that we don't really know just how bad it is.
I believe this is about the attitude sometimes she feels about the world. We don't know the whole story and it's not right to kill just to pay the bills.
I believe this is about the attitude that "as long as my life is fine that stuff doesn't matter" even if they are half killing themselves to keep themselves alive.
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"Timor"
Dec 1, 2005 19:36:08 GMT -5
Post by shavonfan on Dec 1, 2005 19:36:08 GMT -5
Wow! Very interesting stuff! Thank you very much for sharing!
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"Timor"
Dec 1, 2005 19:45:15 GMT -5
Post by ocelot on Dec 1, 2005 19:45:15 GMT -5
Here's a quote that Shakira made a few years ago.
“We forget that bombs and missiles don't fall on top of cardboard dummies, they fall on people -- children and mothers. The leaders are lacking love, and love is lacking leaders . . . The values of the world are twisted and we need to go back to principles of love and forgiveness. That's the only way to survive. New leaders have to emerge, leaders who talk about love. Like Ghandi and Martin Luther King, Jr. Where are they? The thinkers, the journalists, the artists of this generation are the ones who determine the thoughts of a generation, and we have to pronounce those thoughts so people wake up, so we prevent future disasters . . . If we don't demand from our leaders a peaceful solution to the conflict, then we aren't even going to be alive to regret it.”
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"Timor"
Dec 1, 2005 20:39:06 GMT -5
Post by shavonfan on Dec 1, 2005 20:39:06 GMT -5
I think it is very well known here that I support the war in Iraq. I stand by that still today. However, I agree very much with these comments that you have posted. I know that it must sound like a contradiction, or even hypocritical to say that. But I do believe that love and peace is the answer, while at the same time recognizing that in a fallen world there are times when military force is needed. Shakira is right in my opinion that we need more voices of love and peace in our world. Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. are great examples, but they stand much taller than most in their efforts because they both realized that the cause they were about was much bigger than they were. It's hard to name anyone today who really fits that description. Most of it now is very political. And the talk is very much laced with rhetoric. Thinkers, journalists, and artsists of any generation either REFLECT or determine the thoughts of that generation. It would be nice if more artists were at least challenging our thoughts, such as Bruce Springsteen, U2, and Lara Fabian. It seems that Shakira belongs as well. Love and peace is a good message, but so is freedom and protection from evil. As an individual, I can turn the other cheek if someone wants to strike me. If someone wants to strike my neighbor, then I guess there is no greater love than to lay down my life for him. If the threat or the violence persists, then so does the strength and force to stop it. We cannot just say peace, peace where there is no peace. But we must sometimes fight for a peaceful world. Shakira is correct in that the values of the world are twisted. I must sound like a roller- coaster to speak of war and yet agree with Shakira, but I do!
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"Timor"
Dec 1, 2005 21:00:33 GMT -5
Post by ocelot on Dec 1, 2005 21:00:33 GMT -5
I don't think you sound hypocritical. You just care a lot for humanity and there are a lot of people who care about humanity that see things different ways. A lot of them think the war in Iraq was wrong and there are those who see the war in Iraq as something that was needed to free country of prisoners. Sometimes there are times when love and forgiveness just aren't enough and force is needed. I think there are people who care about humanity a whole lot but have different measures of when they feel force should be used.
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