"Congratulations"

[achebeautiful]

Hey, I just want to congratulate Paula and anyone else who considers themselves a "looney liberal" (LOL) on the elections Tuesday! Hats off on a job well done!

It looks like the Democrats will take both the House and the Senate.

I believe the United States of America to be a great nation, and I say that because of the systems that are in place to ensure that greatness regardless of which party is in control in Washington D.C.

Furthermore, I believe the United States of America to be a land of opportunity, which means that your life is what you choose to make of it. Who occupies the White House or controls Congress does not determine my happiness.....I do! I am free to pursue (and obtain) happiness whether a liberal or a conservative is in power in Washington D.C.

So again, hats off to Paula and the rest of you wackos who consider yourselves Liberals! (LOL) You won fair and square, and I commend you for it!

Oh, and yes Paula, I'm sticking my tongue out at you (in fun)!!

[S.C.]

The Democrats who ran and won, won by running like Republicans. A lot of great Republicans went down on election night just for being Republican. Just because the Democrats won both houses that's hardly a mandate. Each race was won by a thin margin. Not exactly a landslide victory. There are a lot of people who voted not knowing one single issue at hand or who their state reprensentatives are. That is frightening to me.

I proudly voted straight ticket Republican knowing each candidates' positions and the issues. I never vote on what I think the government can give me. I was raised to work for what I want and not to rely on hand outs from anyone, especially the government. This is the land of opportunity. You can do and be anything that you want. If you want a better job, then work hard get the proper education and go for the goal. That goes for anything in life really. I am a go-getter. I go for what I want because I know no one is going to get it for me. I don't wait around on the government or Democrats' promises to make life better for me. It's my life, I am responsible for what I do with it.

[achebeautiful]

As should be! Well stated Shavon. Right on!

[lapayin]

Ok first of all I would like you to know I voted for some Democrats and I am fully aware of the issues. I would venture to say there are people on both sides who are unaware of the issues and people on both sides that vote party lines without caring about the issues. This should not be a Democratic or Republican election. This should be an election to hopefully improve America. I disagree with you about this not being a mandate. If a few Reps lost I would agree but this was America speaking out saying "We want change". I would imagine there are many people who would like things to go on as they are, but look at the election results, look at Bush's approval rate. The majority do not. Will the Dems do a better job? Well only time will tell. You should not be frightened Shavon. Elections are what America is all about. Not Dems and not Reps but Americans. We can change things without killing each other.

Mark this is not a game or competition. You should not be congratulating me you should be congratulating the country for having the courage to speak their mind.

I have voted mainly, but not totally, Democratic most of my life and I do not want or expect hand outs either. I work very hard for what I have. The problem with America today is this us against them mentality. We are one. We should all try to work together to make America the best it can be.

Hopefully with change there will be a sense of responsiblilty. That is something that has been lacking for many years on both sides.

[lapayin]

"looney liberal" "rest of you wackos who consider yourselves Liberals!" at least we can pronounce nuclear and remember to shut the microphone off while standing in front of thousands of people and a television camera. Oh yes and we wacky liberals shoot at the birds not lawyers. Oh wait that is a point for your side.

[S.C.]

For those who vote not knowing a single issue or not knowing who their state representatives is frightening. That is what frightens me point blank. Knowledge is power. It's great that you are educated in that respect, however my post was not referring to you personally. It was referencing those who didn't know the issues or candidates, may that be people on either side. If you like being governed by polls that's great. His "approval" ratings mean nothing to me. Validation through polls is not my style nor can it change my mind. I am headstrong. Once my mind is made up, there is nothing anyone or anything can do to change my mind. Rarely am I undecided or confused as to what I want. I want somebody in office who won't bat an eye to protect this country, regardless If the choice is unpopular.

My mother used to be a Democrat and she couldn't understand why. She never knew the issues or the positions, she just voted blindly for Democrats because that's what her mother did. Then, when she started to educate herself on the issues, she became a Republican. My mother raised my sister and I by herself. She didn't depend on the government for a dime. She picked herself up by her boot straps and marched on victoriously. She looked back at those times at being a single parent and figured out that she was more of a Republican because she didn't get suckered into entitlements backed by the Democrats. She also realized that she couldn't be race baited into voting for Democrats either. Once again, knowledge is power. My mother no longer votes blindly.


There is a whole list of reasonings as to why she made the switch years ago, but do know that just as with me, she is an independent thinker. Are we always in lock step with the party? Absolutely not. America may have voted for change in a lame-duck session, but it's hardly a mandate. If this was a message for change I expected the results to be more of a landslide, not razor thin. I don't expect much to get accomplished in 2 years. Bush is still the Commander-In-Chief. My hope is that the last 2 years of his leadership will not be underminded by those who would love to see him burned at the stake.

[achebeautiful]

I'd like to add some observations to this discussion for the sake of the conversation.

First, regarding my comments made about congratulating Paula. I realize very well that this election was not a game or competition. When the issues before us are terrorism, war, embryonic stem cell research, partial birth abortion, the economy, education, securing the borders, and Supreme Court Justice appointments to name but a few, we are talking about issues that affect lives in a big way. My purpose for congratulating Paula on the election was due to the fact that over the past twelve or so years I have witnessed the losing party in elections make some very rediculous statements about the elections being 'fixed' or otherwise. Not being willing to concede, every election lately has turned into a scandal. I simply wanted to be above that level of action and show some character where I think it has been missing for far too long. I apologize for giving the impression that this election was somehow a game or competition. I know how important the issues are to you, Paula, and just thought it a nice thing to congratulate you on being victorious although disagreeing with you on the issues.

Second, regarding my comments about "looney liberals" and "wackos", I again apologize. Maybe I should not have included the namecalling. It was truly meant to be in fun, and certainly not to hurt anyone or put them down. Paula, to you specifically I again am sorry. We disagree on the issues, but I have utmost respect for you.

Next, as far as the election results go, the Democrats clearly won. The way our system is set up, you only need more votes than the other. It's not a matter of how big a margin the victory. It's true that the election was very close all across the country, but the fact is the Democrats came out on top. Landslide or not, they won.

Staying on that subject for just a second more, keep in mind that President Bush won his second term by only 51%, and among his first comments about it he said that he had capital and intended to spend it. In other words, he considered his victory to be a mandate. So I cannot fault the Dems for feeling the same way now, or even disagree with them.

About the subject of voters not being informed I can say this: take a look at many of the campaign adds that were being run by both parties. What you will notice when you do is that many of the people in this election were not even discussing the issues! They were more busy arguing over each others character flaws! Worse yet, they were spending millions to get that message across - character flaws! In other words, there were more discussions about putting each other down personally than there were about the issues.

About the issue of a mandate, I believe there is one here. Problem is, I am uncertain of what exactly it is. Were the people truly voting their disgust for the Bush administration? Are they voting against the war? Or could they possibly be against the very people that they voted out of office? Is it possible that the people were not very impressed with the job that the House and Senate were doing? Many Republican Senators stood by President Bush until it came time to campaign for re-election. Then after seeing his poor approval ratings, they tried to distance themselves from him. Is it possible that this was perceived by people to be scratching for votes? I'm only asking.....

Regarding Paula's staement:

"The problem with America today is this us against them mentality. We are one. We should all try to work together"

I will hold you to those words. If this Congress turns out to be endless hearings and litigation over the next two years, I hope that you will be willing to admit that it was a reasonable fear of us who voted for the party that lost.

There is no doubt in my mind that we are one as a country. However, the divide is great when it comes to the issues and how we believe the country can best be improved. How do all work together when it comes to the issue of abortion? Stem-cell reseach? Education? War? Borders? I think it is a great debate, and even necessary. Throw in a terrorist act or a hurricane disaster and all of a sudden we are one! Yes, there is blame that goes around, and yes, we're still at odds with each other. But we also roll up our sleeves in these times and reach out to one another.

My life hasn't changed since the day before the election. I still am anxiously awaiting Lara's upcoming release, and will get it as soon as possible!

If I could add one more thing to the discussion, it is that I am so grateful to have Shavon join the conversation once in awhile. I miss you in your absence!

By the way, this discussion is open to everyone! I am interested in what Leona, Coenraad, Rachelle and Joanna have on their minds as well! You do not have to be from the USA to have an opinion about these things! Tell us your thoughts!

[S.C.]

The only goal for both parties should be to get in and get the job done. Political ads don't sway me in the slighest. As I have previously stated, I am rarely undecided. I know what I want and when I want it. No political ad could sway my mind or my vote. I educate myself on the issues in-depth and vote accordingly. However, some people don't educate themselves on the issues, which they become easy prey for politicians and untruthful ads like the Stem Research ad in MO or the one in GA where you had Black leadership saying If Georgia elected Republicans back into office, things would be worse than in the Civil Rights era! Absolutely proposterous! And yet people actually believed that line of bull. I thank my lucky stars that I am smart enough, educated enough not to fall for such ludicrous rhetoric.

[achebeautiful]

Okay Shavon, but if you voted for anybody in this election then you in part supported a campaign that spent millions on rediculous ads. In that regard, you supported in some measure what you did not want or get in return.

[S.C.]

That's your conclusion Mark. Not mine.

[achebeautiful]

I in no way am speaking for anyone here but myself, and I mean no harm to anyone. I'm simply sharing my thoughts about all of this. I have to admit that of my thoughts I am still sorting them out on an ongoing basis. I appreciate this discussion very much, and only wish that everyone would join in. I just feel badly that we so easily become injured by another person's sharing. If it helps all of you to know, I respect all of your thoughts and ideas. You challenge my thinking and help me to grow. Furthermore, I trust that you care about me enough to share your thoughts without meaning to do me harm, so I accept what you share without offense (whether or not I agree.)

One of the reasons that I think this to be the best forum on the planet is that we do not all share the same beliefs and can disagree and yet still love one another. I hope we can all agree on that!

[lapayin]

I would like to start by saying if I misunderstood what either one of you were saying I do apologize.

I totally agree with you that many people (on both sides) go into an election without the knowledge of the issues or what the candidates stand for. We unfortunately live in a public relations world and sometimes we end up with elected officials who have the best PR team not neccessarily the best credentials. "Knowledge is power." I could not agree with you more.

I now understand what you meant by what frightens you and it is true. Sadly a lot of people in America today are apathetic. One reason could be because as Mark said "They were more busy arguing over each others character flaws! Worse yet, they were spending millions to get that message across - character flaws!" It's hard to understand the issues when no one talks about them. People are really getting turned off with the negative campaigning that seems to grow more disgusting with each election. I for one am fed up with it. I would not vote for anyone who told me what the other candidates would do or would not do. I only considered candidates who told me what they themselves would do. If that was aligned with my philosophy I voted for them without regard to party lines.

"If this Congress turns out to be endless hearings and litigation over the next two years, I hope that you will be willing to admit that it was a reasonable fear of us who voted for the party that lost." I don't think that's fair. I would imagine you voted for "the party that lost" because they were more in line with your thinking. Why would you assume the Dems cause any more gridlock than the Reps? I think they both do a great job of it. If I remember correctly after Bush vehmently campaigned against lawyers, he threatened litigation after the 2000 election was being questioned. Let's remember that he did not win the popular vote he "won" the electorial college. But, I have no doubt that this congress, last congress or future congresses will get anything done. In my opinion the house and senate should all be fired/impeached and we should start all over again. Most of the politicians of today are not interested in what is best for America, they are interested in re-election. Many have been in their jobs forever. As you said Mark we need a crisis to get anything done.

The many crisises that we have had to deal with has brought a new ugly tactic to these elections. As Shavon eluded to "the fear factor". How awful is it to prey on people's fear to win a vote? It was rampant this year. We have reached an all time low.

[Rachelle]

This was my first time voting in an election because I turned 18 this past May and it was very exciting for me vote. I am a moderate "loony liberal haha." Though I am registered as a Democrat, I didn't vote straight Democrat. Sadly, I wasn't very big on anything government related until just a couple of months before election day. I actually read propostions (those are incredibly long), the backgrounds of the candidates, and the pros and the cons on all the issues. I paid attention and educated myself on what was going on around me. We are living in interesting tiimes and I was amazed to see how much goes on during election. To be honest, the whole experience was quite exciting because this time, I actually got to partipate in conversations relating to the election and to hear everyone's views. It just made me feel real grateful to my parents for immigrating to America because this country allows its citizens to speak out on issues and be heard.

What really ticks me off though is the percentage of people who can vote legally. I mean, here we are, in the Land of the Free, and here we have the elections, the time where we can really excercise our freedom by voting on issues that affects everyone, and less than half the country chooses not to vote. Polls are open practically open all day. Come on people. There are people who literally DIE from wanting to be heard from their government. They would like nothing better than to vote. Also, I am quite sad that my age group has one of the lowest voting turnouts. To me, the best part of being 18 is the opportunity to vote, (not just buying lotto tickets hahaha).

[achebeautiful]

Well, this discussion has certainly proved one thing to me, and that is this:

Along with Shavon's amazing talent to make this forum as beautiful as it is, the members here are incredibly thoughtful and wise. Furthermore, it is great that we can discuss a subject that we all have different views about, yet are all very passionate about, and still can carry on the conversation with respect toward one another.

If there are two subjects that we are always advised against discussing, they are politics and religion. Most of the time with good reason. But here, I think we do a very good job of it. I credit that to the wonderful people that make up this membership. You all have great minds, but also big hearts! Bravo!

Paula, you did an amazing job of summarizing all of our thoughts. And Rachelle, I commend you on taking responsibility with your first opportunity to vote by studying up on the issues and candidates!

Once again, I apologize for the "looney liberal" comment. It was just a fun way for me to express how very conservative I am politically. I meant no disrespect.