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Post by S.C. on Jan 5, 2008 19:26:39 GMT -5
The 2008 Presidential Election is shaping up to be a great one! However, I am conceding that either Hillary or Obama will win the Whitehouse. Neither are my choices. I am a Rudy Giuliani supporter all the way, but a Republican will not capture the Whitehouse this time around because of the inability of conservatives to pick their battles. I would say that I am a Liberal-Republican. I am a pro-life feminist, I am not religious(more spiritual), I am big on fighting the war on terrorism, I am pro-environment, I am against hand-outs, I am for tougher immigration. There is plenty more that I am for and against but I believe this small list is quite definitive of what I stand for.
I never really realized until now how completely unrealistic conservatism is. Earlier, I browsed Free Republic, an online site that caters to the right. The majority of the right-wing posters would much rather lose this election to Hillary or Obama than to vote for a person such as Rudy because he doesn't share their unrealistic moral values. I consider myself to be a very moral person, but not to the point that life no longer becomes fun or that I let a certain ideology rule my life. The Republican Party is not your grandfather's party anymore. The days of Reagan are over. We can never go back to that.
Today's society is a lot more liberal and a lot less conservative. Especially, when it comes to the youth. I believe that Obama would capture the youth vote by leaps and bounds. What the conservatives fail to realize is that the country is not going to vote for another Reagan, Bush, etc. That's just not going to happen--period. I am not suggesting that conservatives need to abandon their beliefs, but more like move their beliefs into the 21st century. Divorces happen, gays will forever be here, Roe V. Wade will never be overturned, etc.
I believe that the GOP has the ability to become a big umbrella party, but in order for that to happen, they have to realize that not everyone thinks or believes like them, especially when it comes to certain issues. Mark my words, either Hillary or Obama will win the Whitehouse in 2008, one of them will retain it for 8 years and a Republican will not re-capture the Whitehouse for a very long time. The prospect of a Hillary or an Obama Whitehouse scares me, but not as much as conservatives who are close-minded.
~Shavon
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Post by achebeautiful on Jan 5, 2008 23:49:08 GMT -5
Actually, Shavon, if you really believe everything that you just posted you should throw your support to Mike Huckabee...he much more closely embraces your views than Rudy Giuliani.
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Post by S.C. on Jan 6, 2008 1:45:53 GMT -5
Mark,
Not a chance! I don't know Huckabee from Adam. Rudy is the ONLY one that could beat Hillary or Obama in the general election. Huckabee wouldn't stand a chance against either one of those two. In fact, none of the pubbie candidates would with the exception of Rudy. I do honestly believe that true, Reaganesque-conservatism is dead, and that the country is becoming a lot more independent and moderate.
Rudy became my candidate during 9/11. He showed great leadership and strength during that crisis. Rudy cleaned up New York and I believe he would clean up Washington, while being a strong leader in the very best of times and in the very worst of times. If Rudy becomes the Republican nominee, he has a fighting chance against Hillary or Obama. If anyone other than Rudy becomes the nominee then we can all say hello to a Democratic run Whitehouse for 8 years +. I shudder to think what that may look like but until the GOP realizes that you can't raise Reagan from the dead, and go back to 1980 then the Democrats will continue to when.
My philosophy is that you can never go back in life, only move forward towards the future. The same can be applied to politics. There is a storm brewing and when it is all said and done, the country will either have elected its first woman president or its first president of color. Or If I have it my way, the first Italian-American president!
~Shavon
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Post by achebeautiful on Jan 6, 2008 9:47:45 GMT -5
You are so cute! Here you are stating: and yet also criticise conservatives for: Funny, that. Okay, good idea...let's all be good people unless, of course, it interferes with our ability to have fun! ;D I'm all for it. Moreso, say, than liberalism? Look, I am a conservative for a reason, and it begins with me waking up each morning and kissing the day on purpose. I'll bow my head to God and reach out my hand to as many people as I can who need one....how you determine to label me for it is completely up to you. I could care less if I am the last conservative on earth. I'm willing to be open minded but I am not going to change what I believe in or how I view the issues just because it has become popular to be liberal. Conservatism and liberalism is all about what role you believe the government has in our lives. I am a conservative because I feel that our founding fathers did a very good job of establishing our form of government, and I continue to support it. The government was not meant to do what you and I should be doing ourselves. Disagree with me all you want, and continue to believe that government is going to take care of things that still exist even after they have taxed the hell of us to solve the problem. You do that, and I'll get on with the business of doing my best with the little that's left in my wallet. Right now, I would vote for any of the Republican candidates with the exception of Ron Paul, who I think is a lunatic. His supporters are freaks as well. He claims to be the only true conservative running in the GOP, but don't be fooled. In reality, he is about as much a true conservative as Rosie O'Donnell. Ultra-conservatism is essentially the same as liberalism, IMO. They both are fighting some supposed revolution, and since there isn't one to fight (such as with a tyrannical British gov't) they have to create one. They do so by making up victim status for themselves, and then rail against America for it. It's complete, total, foolish bullshit. I'm not at all impressed with Fred Thompson. He does not even seem to be interested in becoming President. It seems like a chore to be running for him. I want someone who is excited about leading this country, because it's a great country and there is a lot to be excited about! I'm also not very high on John McCain. He will do well in NH, but I hope that's the extent of it for him. He has proven to be a snake as a Senator. I'd have no problem voting for Huckabee, Romney or Giuliani. There are a lot of things about all three that I like, and just as much about each of them that I don't. Right now, I remain undecided as to which of them I will in the end give my vote to. If I had my way, I'd vote for Duncan Hunter, but he has absolutely no chance of winning. Shavon, it's your move, woman....get yer debate on and let me have it!
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Post by ocelot on Jan 6, 2008 17:07:26 GMT -5
I've been watching the US Election stuff and from the Democrats I like Obama and from the Republicans I like McCain and Huckabee. I watched the Republican Youtube debate on CNN and I lost so much respect for Giuliani and Romney.
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Post by S.C. on Jan 7, 2008 16:45:43 GMT -5
My point is, is that I don't appreciate radical anything. Don't confuse my 'Liberalism' with the mainstream. I never said that I wanted government to do and be everything to everyone. I am against that. My liberalism is more independent than most, which is taken on a case by case basis. This isn't a debate. It was about sharing my thoughts on the 2008 Presidential Election. ~Shavon You are so cute! Here you are stating: and yet also criticise conservatives for: Funny, that. Okay, good idea...let's all be good people unless, of course, it interferes with our ability to have fun! ;D I'm all for it. Moreso, say, than liberalism? Look, I am a conservative for a reason, and it begins with me waking up each morning and kissing the day on purpose. I'll bow my head to God and reach out my hand to as many people as I can who need one....how you determine to label me for it is completely up to you. I could care less if I am the last conservative on earth. I'm willing to be open minded but I am not going to change what I believe in or how I view the issues just because it has become popular to be liberal. Conservatism and liberalism is all about what role you believe the government has in our lives. I am a conservative because I feel that our founding fathers did a very good job of establishing our form of government, and I continue to support it. The government was not meant to do what you and I should be doing ourselves. Disagree with me all you want, and continue to believe that government is going to take care of things that still exist even after they have taxed the hell of us to solve the problem. You do that, and I'll get on with the business of doing my best with the little that's left in my wallet. Right now, I would vote for any of the Republican candidates with the exception of Ron Paul, who I think is a lunatic. His supporters are freaks as well. He claims to be the only true conservative running in the GOP, but don't be fooled. In reality, he is about as much a true conservative as Rosie O'Donnell. Ultra-conservatism is essentially the same as liberalism, IMO. They both are fighting some supposed revolution, and since there isn't one to fight (such as with a tyrannical British gov't) they have to create one. They do so by making up victim status for themselves, and then rail against America for it. It's complete, total, foolish bullshit. I'm not at all impressed with Fred Thompson. He does not even seem to be interested in becoming President. It seems like a chore to be running for him. I want someone who is excited about leading this country, because it's a great country and there is a lot to be excited about! I'm also not very high on John McCain. He will do well in NH, but I hope that's the extent of it for him. He has proven to be a snake as a Senator. I'd have no problem voting for Huckabee, Romney or Giuliani. There are a lot of things about all three that I like, and just as much about each of them that I don't. Right now, I remain undecided as to which of them I will in the end give my vote to. If I had my way, I'd vote for Duncan Hunter, but he has absolutely no chance of winning. Shavon, it's your move, woman....get yer debate on and let me have it!
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Post by achebeautiful on Jan 7, 2008 16:53:52 GMT -5
Oh, okay....sorry. I should not have responded then. My bad.
Please accept my apology.
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Post by S.C. on Jan 7, 2008 17:20:03 GMT -5
I never said you couldn't respond, just that my intentions were not to start an ongoing debate with you. This is a forum, so post to whatever you want. ~Shavon
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Post by achebeautiful on Jan 7, 2008 18:13:49 GMT -5
I am very strong in the things I believe in, and yet do not consider myself closed-minded. Share with me one issue or as many as you like and I will tell you EXACTLY why I hold the position I do about it. I'm willing to be open-minded, Shavon, but not so much so that my brains fall out.
If I believe in something and you don't, naturally you are going to consider me a radical. It doesn't matter whether it's politics, religion, sports....whatever....if someone shares a love for something that the other person does not (or at least in equivalent measure) then he or she will be viewed a radical.
I'm passionate about the things that matter to me, and they include a love for God, my country, family, and friends. I wouldn't at all be surprised to learn that people who know me consider me a fanatic and a radical about each of those things that matter so much to me. Fine by me....I pour my heart and soul over them anyway (I guess you could say they are my treasure.)
But I'm passionate about the things I believe in, and there is a reason WHY I believe everything I do. So, if you don't want to discuss it I'm fine with that. But if you do, I'm willing to tell you on a case by case basis why I believe what I do politically.
By the way, how the heck long has it been since the two of us have been in touch? We need to have a nice long chat! I'll bet you are as beautiful as ever!!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Post by ocelot on Jan 7, 2008 18:32:57 GMT -5
My point is, is that I don't appreciate radical anything. Don't confuse my 'Liberalism' with the mainstream. I never said that I wanted government to do and be everything to everyone. I am against that. My liberalism is more independent than most, which is taken on a case by case basis. I'm the same way. I'm Conservative on certain issues and Liberal on others. It's very hard for me to decide who to vote for because there's no party that stands in my beliefs, either they are liberal on issues I'm conservative on or they are Conservative on issues I'm liberal on. I'm coming at the US election from the outside and I look alot at foreign policy. From the debates I've seen I really dislike Romney. I think whoever is made President needs to declare that they are 100% behind the Geneva Convention (Romney refused to do this in the Youtube debate), anything else would keep damaging the way the world looks at the US.
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Post by achebeautiful on Jan 8, 2008 16:45:22 GMT -5
Well, let me ask you something, Leona....do you consider yourself open-minded about that, or would you say that you pretty much have your mind made up?
My point being this: everyone's political and religious beliefs are their "worldview"...the lens through which they see them. Mine are far different from yours, but that in no way makes me more close-minded than you. I'm not more radical than you either, nor are my views any more or less "unrealistic".
Here is what is absoltely great about the USA and Canada, that we can have a process by which we choose our leaders without the threat of violence or death. It's awesome!
Leona, you have a keen sense of the candidates from what you have seen in the debates. Unfortunately, there is more to some of these people than just how well they do in these settings.
Shavon, you are absolutely right as well (even though I have debated you on it when you didn't mean for it to be so). I have been to Free Republic (I call it Freak Republic) and other such forums as well....most of the people who occupy these forums are very smug about their views and take them out on everyone who dares to disagree with them. I highly doubt they represent the many good people throughout our nation and furthermore doubt anyone really cares what the hell they think. More people than are realized just wake up every day and do the best they know how....
The field of candidates on both the Republican and Democratic side prove that the country is very diverse in its political views, because if it were not so someone would have already jumped out as the clear winner. As you can see, the race is very close, proving that the country is embracing lots of ideas.
About the only thing I know for certain is that I would never desire running for President of the United States! ;D
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Post by ocelot on Jan 8, 2008 19:23:04 GMT -5
My mind is made up on Geneva Convention because any country that does not follow is less in my mind than the countries that do follow it. And you won't be able to change my mind on this.
I saw an interview with Duncan Hunter last night, and I would be interested in knowing more about him but he's not likely to win and I can't vote for the American President. I don't have my mind made up on the candidates because I don't really know these people, though I am familar with John McCain.
I know when I was deciding who to vote for in the Canadian Election I had to decide what issues was most important to me because there is no candidate that I like the views on all issues.
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Post by achebeautiful on Jan 8, 2008 22:36:06 GMT -5
Exactly, Leona.....you have made my point. Duncan Hunter has zero chance of winning the nomination, and will likely be the next Republican candidate to bow out of the race. What you have to consider about him is this...he is probably the most conservative candidate running, and yet he is HUGELY popular in San Diego among both Republicans and Democrats. People who know him seem to strongly support him. This is a very good quality to have as a leader. By the way, I do appreciate and love to learn your perspective even though you cannot vote.
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Post by achebeautiful on Jan 26, 2008 15:28:48 GMT -5
Well, my choice for President, Duncan Hunter, officially dropped out of the race on January 19th, so now I have to consider someone else (as if I didn't know that he wasn't going to get the nomination. ) In dropping out, Duncan Hunter strongly endorsed Mike Huckabee. I happen to like Mike Huckabee very much, although he is not as conservative as I would like him to be on some issues. That stated, I think I may be throwing my support his way....at least for now. I doubt he will last much longer either, though. This thing is going to come down to McCain, Romney and Giuliani. But, as long as Mike Huckabee remains in the race, I am supporting his candidacy.
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Post by lapayin on Jan 27, 2008 12:26:24 GMT -5
This is one election where I am very comfortable supporting any one of three candidates. I can not remember a time when that has been true for me. I know I am in the minority here but I would be happy with Hilary Clinton, Barak Obama or John McCain.
Of the three, the person I think who would have the toughest time in the white house is Barak because of his limited experience. But what he lacks in experience he makes up in inspiration. My opinion is, we are at a time where Americans need to become united again and feel good about ourselves. I think he would be good at that. And hopefully he would do well in getting congress to actually do something constructive (tall order).
The other two have the best experience home and "abroad". Another important aspect for me is to mend international relations. I would love to see a Clinton - Obama ticket though that will never happen.
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